Getting the Superman titles back on track

That isn't just a problem of the generally poor quality of the Superman books, though. As much as people hate to hear it, that's a result of allowing the interpretation of the character to grow stale as a month-old bun. Virtually every generation has reinvented Superman into something more suited to the times (as is the case with virtually all long-running characters). The current generation has not, and, as a result, the character today is an utter anachronism. The major problem with the post-Crisis Superman isn't, as the more reactionary and least thoughtful fans will tell you, that it changed too many things

Which makes another point. The entire DCU is too powerful.

Then scale him back so that he can't have his every whim.

He's hardly here to save us all. He has no compelling reason to save anyone, unlike Batman, who is out for revenge against the criminal element that murdered his parents. That's always been the weakest link in the Superman mythos... he has NO reason to do what he does.

Yes, I only gave the West example as something that most people would understand. Very few people here were reading Superman in the 50s and 60s, most likely.

Exactly. Go back and look at the 40s Fleisher cartoons. That was Superman. He was powerful, but not obnoxiously so. He could be beaten. He could be stopped. He was not a god in any sense of the word, he was just a powerful man who cared about people.

They need to get rid of the boyscout image entirely. Give him a reason to do what he does. Give him a reason to fight other than 'Well gee, I'm a good guy, isn't that special?'

On the contrary, I think it makes the strongest point of his character: that he does it out of a sense of civic responsibility. Not because of revenge (Batman), or guilt (Spider-Man), or money (Booster Gold), or his mission as an ambassador (Wonder Woman), or cause he was given powers by an alien/wizard (Captain Marvel, original Marvelman, Green Lantern). It's just cause he pitches in wherever he feels needed, and with supersenses and superpowers, he feels he has more responsibility than most. That's what I get from the Byrne revamp, 'Superman for all Seasons', and so forth, anyways.

The way I saw the pre-Crisis Superman since he had memories of Krypton was that he lost one world and he will do anything to keep from losing another.

I could see that for the post-Crisis version.

Exactly! The Fleisher cartoons, and the radio program and, most importantly, the original Siegel & Shuster issues (they've been reprinted in archive editions now

But unfortunately, that's what makes Superman so unrealistic. Most people *HATE* the boy scout image. No one is a good guy, just for the sake of being a good guy. That only happens in fairy tales.

Then why do you think anyone becomes a fireman or a police officer?

Y'know in many ways it's a sad commentary on what our society is becoming when people can't believe that someone would be willing to help just for the sake of doing the right thing. There have been amazing examples of this generous human quality throughout history. Take Ghandi,Mother Teresa,Maximilian Kolbe or Martin Luther King Jr. for example. People willing to give everything to see the world become a better place. Not to mention the countless Police officers and Firemen and woman who rushed into the World Trade Centre to try and save whatever lives they could, many at their own peril. Is it so impossible to believe that there are those among us who don't only think of themselves? The idea of Superman being hollow and unbeliveable because he doesn't choose to profit from his abilities but instead chooses to help those less fortunate is a cynical idea indeed. Fortunately, Superman the character is not so cynical.Like the great heroes of legend, Superman represents an ideal that we should all strive for. No matter how much money, success, or power we may find in life, true superpower comes from helping those less fortunate or unable to help themselves. It's a simple decision, do you run from an opportunity to help and say 'I don't want to get involved.' or do you help? Do you believe in 'get what you can and screw everybody else.' or do you believe in Truth and Justice, not just for some but for eveyone.

Superman rocks, it's most of us that need a reworking.

Fair enough. However, in practice, foiling bank robbers or the Purple Piledriver isn't really saving the world.

That's a shame. When I see that in a comic, the first thing I think is 'There's something I won't be reading.' I guess that's why I read so few DC books, and even that will be falling in the next few months. Sorry, but when exactly did superhero come to mean 'mindless, two-dimensional morality play that went out in the 50s for most people'?

But now people have come to be so reliant on SuperDuperImperviousMan and his Wonderful Friends that they're afraid to actually go back to the character conception.

There's a mythology that has built up around Superman, and to a lesser degree Batman, that they are just perfect and can do no wrong, can never be beaten and will always save the day. At this point in time, you really can't write a decent Superman story because there's nothing that can challenge him. There exists no villain that could hurt him. There exists no power that could defeat him. At this point, you either need to change him, or stop writing him altogether.

The other positive point about Marvel is that their heroes are not Mr. Goody Two-Shoes. They are not good for the sake of being good, they CHOOSE to be that way. But they're human as well. They have feelings and emotions and reasons to do what they do. They fail, they make mistakes, and sometimes they act in ways not all that heroic, but at least they try.

Superman couldn't have a non-heroic thought if his life depended on it.

And that's why they need to either retcon and go back to the origins, or just stop writing the books. Let the characters die if they can't do them right.